Ox [Ochs] - aka the upper hanger

Discussion of Western Martial Arts practice and interpretation of historic combat texts.
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Hugh
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:14 am

Ox [Ochs] - aka the upper hanger

Post by Hugh » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:55 am

themattymoose wrote:My 2 cents drawing from a lot of source materials.

Ox should employ a thumb guard, so should plough.

We now think in Ox the blade is actually horizontal, and the images of a static guard where it isn't is the start of the "unfold"

A good example of this is Kal's Cgm 1507

...as discussed in Johannes Liechtenauer's Epitome if you are trying to defeat Ox don't forget the Zwerchhaw:

The Zwerchau takes away
that which comes from above.
Zwerch with the “strong”;
mark well your work with this.
Zwerch against the plough,
and strike powerfully against the ox.
He who Zwerches well
with a spring, threatens the head.
I agree re: thumb guard for Ox & pflug. I don't remember it being mentioned in Dobringer or Ringeck, but I may be forgetting. It does seem to turn up in every other german fechtbuch though.

We had a play with various blade orientations for Ox, and I tend to agree that the blade should be horizontal, or slightly angled upward, rather than vertical.
My impression is that the miniatures in those illuminated manuscripts showing Ox with blade vertical just so that you can see the blade - a horizontal blade when drawn from the side would just be a line. Holding the blade vertical in Ox leaves the hands exposed, and I've only found it useful to rotate toward vertical in a few situations.

That last quote is a great one - we just haven't gotten that far in our run through the manual (week 2 is this week - so will still be a couple more before we get there I think).

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